I just have a question regarding this version of visual basic 6. I hope I
would get an honest and direct answer here.

Deitel's Visual Basic 6: How to Program book includes a copy of Visual Basic
6.0 Working Model Edition. It states that the student can use this version to
learn how to program in VB6 but with the following limitations:


Limitations of Visual Basic 6.0 Working Model Edition

1. The Working Model has all the functionality of the commercial version of
Visual Basic, excluding the following:
2. The Working Model does not allow you to add a user control to the
interface.
The Working Model does not include the MSDN Library, so you will not be able
to use the computer to complete the "Getting Help in Visual Basic" and "Using
the F1 Key".
3. You cannot use the Working Model to make an executable file.
4. You cannot use the Working Model to create a DHTML Application.
5. You cannot use the Working Model to create an ActiveX control.

Although it is somewhat limiting, I think it is fair enough. But to make it
clear, does this version of visual basic needs some sort of license per
computer or per student? Or is it free for students to use in their VB course?

Let's face it, not all of our students (here in the Philippines) have the
financial capabilities to purchase licensed copies of software. It is a fact
we must all face. So, in my opinion, students must have some sort of
alternative in learning.

Show quote Hide quote I believe if you check the EULA, distribution of that edition is limited to
the purchase of that book. You would have to check with MS to determine if
the Learning Edition was ever 'freely' distributed. AFAIK, it has always
been tied to a book or other material.

-ralph

Generally, those are the ONLY answers you'll get here. Sometimes, answers
are TOO honest. IOW, we really tell you what we think, sometimes to the
point of being brutal.


Regardless of limitations of the Working Model edition, there's still an End
User License Agreement (EULA) governing the software included with the book
(and VB6 Working Model *might* even have its own EULA separate from a
"general" EULA of the book itself).  You need to check that. Personally, I
don't know what it grants.

I'd have to go along with Ralph in that use of it by individual users,
legally at least, requires that each of them purchase the book.  Most
likely, the license to use any of the software included with the book is
dependent on purchasing the book itself.  That's just pretty much standard,
unless the software included is specifically public domain, freeware, or
shareware (and if shareware, you can be sure that only demo or evaluation
copies of the software are included and each of them have their own EULA;
even freeware generally has some kind of its own EULA) and is pretty much
freely distributable.

Well, the problem is that to most companies, opinions don't matter. They're
out to make money.  They can't do that by giving away their products. And
there ARE alternatives.  You could teach your students VBA in Word, Excel,
etc. Of course, you'd need to purchase licenses for those products, but it's
an alternative. VBA and VB are close enough that anyone that learns VBA can
apply MUCH of what they learn to VB. There are also other derivations of the
BASIC programming language, some of which are public domain or freeware.
Even with those, students will learn fundamental concepts of programming
which can be applied to virtually any other programming language (be it
derived from BASIC or not).

If nothing else, contact Microsoft. They might very well provide you with
various products and licenses for all your students to use those products.
To MS, it's an incentive for those students to use MS development products
(and even non-development products) in the future. It certainly can't hurt.

Wasn't the VB custom control edition totally free to use?
You couldn't compile exes with it, that was all.

I was under the impression that Microsoft had extremely good deals for
software used in education (so-called educational license), which enabled
you to obtain full versions of these sorts of products for use in teaching.

I would strongly recommend your contacting your local Microsoft branch
office to arrange such a deal for the whole "Visual Studio Academic" package
(http://msdn.microsoft.com/howtobuy/vstudio/vstudioacademic/default.aspx).
The list price for VS.Net 2003 is US$99 per copy, and since you need copies
for each of your students you would probably qualify for volume licensing
(http://www.microsoft.com/education/HowToBuyInstitution.mspx). There may
also be scope for negotiation.

Show quoteHide quote

I think that you would officially need to purchase one book (complete with
one working model) for each student. I'm not sure about that though, so you
would have to carefully read the licence agreement that came with the book.
Others here have suggested that you look into the licencing arrangements
provided by Microsoft when you purchase educational software from them, but
I certainly would not advise you to consider spending any money at all
(other than what is absolutely necessary) for a version of Visual Basic
(VB6) which Microsoft have officially "ditched" and which will almost
certainly have effectively become redundant by the time your students are
old enough to start looking for jobs.

Of course, you could simply load a copy of the VB6 working model onto each
of the computers in your class and just use it without worrying about
licencing restrictions ;-)

(That's what Iwould do!)

Mike

Show quote Hide quote You realize of course that agents of the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright
Act) have no doubt intercepted and flagged this post.

Take a look outside. See any strange vans with an unusual number of antennas
out there?

-ralph

<snip>

Antennae

- and I thought you were an adept pedant  :-}

Sadly MS have lost the plot
- in the old days they would give out stuff for free
- new coders would emerge
- and then start buying the compilers

I even had a compiler for the Apple II, which was definitely written
by MS

Personally I've nothing against .NET apart from seeing it as a lousy
way of attracting non-programmers with a /need/ into the tadpole pool.

Show quote Hide quote LOL

Guilty as charged. However, "antennae" is used mostly in biology. In radio
engineering "antennas" is the more common usage. (attempting to save face at
any stretch. <g>)

On the other hand, when is the last time you used 'datum'?

I too often miss the old days. I have boorishly repeated here my story of
how I came to be a MS developer in the first place. After a very
disappointing experience of trying to install OS/2, I received a letter from
Billy askisng if I would like to try this new Windows Beta stuff. I answered
yes and a week later a large box arrived with 20+ disks, followed by a
similar distribution every month or so. Visual Basic itself was given out
'free' at every conference. The CDK was free, MSAccess 1.0 and 1.1 was free,
the list goes on. It was fun.

You not only could venture forth at little expense, you had the feeling of
being an insider, on the advanced edge, of being a partner in a grand
adventure. I don't sense that with .NET. Maybe I am just getting old.

-ralph

Show quote Hide quote As "attracting non-programmers" I too wonder about that. It does seem that
MS left something behind when they abandoned VBc (VB COM/Classic). That is
likely why they push VB.Net so hard - it presents the illusion if not the
fact.

On the other hand, I do like one aspect that .net brings for beginning
programmers, and that is a decent grounding in OO. I have been an extreme OO
bigot since the first Dr. Dobbs articles in the 80's. It has been a
hard-fought campaign. Even C++ is often used as just a 'better C'. And
what's the current joke around here - many VBers write VB3 code, they just
use VB6 to do it.

While it definitely takes longer for the newbie to get up to speed with
dotnet, at least they are pretty thorough OO programmers when they arrive.
To the point of not even understanding why anyone would approach a problem
from another direction.

Is that good or bad? Time will tell.

-ralph

Object! Popject! Smobject! What's a bloody object! I've written oodles of
useful code and I've never used one of those smobject things in my life (at
least not knowingly)! Does that make me a bad person?

Mike

Show quote Hide quote Au Contraire! If you are coding in VB6 you are using a passel of them.

You will have to run the latter question past Dr. Phil.

-ralph

Yes. But they're all hiding under the hood, where they don't bother me ;-)

LOL

One of my prized wall mountings is a pair of blackened glasses with the
words "Don't Panic" printed across the top. I have found them to be a useful
reminder over the years. In programming invisibilty is seldom a 'bad' thing.
<g>

I am no longer the OO-bigot I once was. In VB there are times where I have
taken OO-ness to the point of silliness with the inevitable chastisement. A
classic case of when one has a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

VB is such a hybrid and applicable to so many problem domains that one of
its most enjoyable features is the fact we can spend our time finding the
right wrench to pound on a screw and the solution works just fine. <g>

-ralph

<snip>

I started off 28 years ago as a non-programmer, to me computers were
simply tools for getting a job done (generally several hundred times
faster than manually)

Once I had decided that they were useful little beasts, I got
interested in the guts, and later the theory.

I'm not that sure that OO is particularly important, programming is
like learning to read  OO is like reading 'good' books.

Not a good simile - but I think you get my drift

By the time I knew what OO was, I had been using such techniques in
DOS for quite some time.

True, it is quite a revelation when one realizes how VB was /designed/
to be used - it also explains a lot of those annoying 'scope' problems

eg: things being too temptingly accessable from places where they
should be inaccessable.

The trouble is that they don't understand the fundamental principles
of what is going on underneath, also I've a nasty suspicion that many
potential programmers fall at the first hurdle.

Unfortunately, if it is not a good thing then we will have lost a
generation of potential programmers.

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