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Software Development - Who owns the creative/resale rights?I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping someone may have experience with this matter. I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the applications. I am now interested in making these applications available to a company with whom's product the applications interface. What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the original client and from what I understand may be considering using/copying my original applications design/functionality. Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items comercially available? Thanks, Matt Matt wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > Nowhere w/o a contractual agreement.> Hi, > > I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping > someone may have experience with this matter. > > I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > applications. > > I am now interested in making these applications available to a company > with whom's product the applications interface. > > What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I > developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative > work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As > far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the > applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. > > My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > original client and from what I understand may be considering > using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > > Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items > comercially available? Assuming that the original client has a copy of the source for the original app, that's theirs (and even if they don't, if they ask I don't think you have any recourse to not provide it since it was a "work for hire"). The can do whatever they want with whomever with that they have in hand unless there was an a priori agreement that limited their rights. As for you and another client, as long as there was no contractual arrangement limiting you and you have no existing conflict of interest, you're also free to do whatever you wish. IMO, $0.02, Etc, ... Thank you for your comments. They've cleared up some general points for
me and raised a few more interesting ones. I probably should have made it clear that both the client and I are based in the UK. Although from what I understand "work for hire" in the US is based on international law. So there's probably more than less in common with the British legal definition. As each of you have recommended, I will try to find some legal counsel regarding the situation. From the sounds of it, it will be money well spent regardless of the outcome. Thanks again. Regards, Matt "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote I am no lawyer, you really should seek professional advice, but from> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping > someone may have experience with this matter. > > I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > applications. that statement right there, the company _MAY_ have legal grounds to claim the software. In one respect, you were paid to solve their problem, and you solved it. The solution is theirs to keep. But from a more legal perspective, IF you were doing work for hire, the result of that work is for the benefit of the company. They are entitled to all the ownership rights, including source code copyrights. Again, I am no lawyer, but you only need look up 'work for hire' in the U.S. Code to see they could have a valid claim. A quick search turned up this: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ9.html But again, legal assistance is always advisable in this area. Its better to pay a few hundred now, than to get take a chance and get stuck with thousands of dollars in damages, later on. HTH LFS
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> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm As others have said, you should definitely ask a lawyer thishoping > someone may have experience with this matter. > > I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > applications. > > I am now interested in making these applications available to a company > with whom's product the applications interface. > > What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I > developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative > work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As > far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the > applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. > > My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > original client and from what I understand may be considering > using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > > Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items > comercially available? question... no matter what someone else's experience may have been, it might not apply to you. The amount of rights assumed to be given away could depend on the amount of compensation received. For example, I doubt a judge would rule you gave up all rights to your intellectual property if your payment were, say, $100. On the other hand, if you were paid $10,000 for your work, you probably don't own it any more. In the absence of a signed contract, everything is open to interpretation. In the future, you should always have a signed contract spelling out what rights each side has BEFORE you start working. You might not want to even take a job if your compensation is, say, $1000 and the loss of all rights to your work. On the other hand, if you were to receive, say, $20,000, you might being willing to give those rights up. Spell out everything before hand and everyone knows where they stand. Rick Since they paid you an hourly rate (could have been a project basis
payment - the fact is that you had been working on the project on your clients dime), the output you produced would become the property of your client. In fact, you would not have the right to resell without the permission from you client or you would be open for a lawsuit.. There was a company that I did some work for that had paid an independent developer to create an application for them. The developer then started to sell the application on the open market. Long story short - company sued developer, won alot of money and a percentage of all future sales... My contracts, that all clients sign, states specifically what they will own and what remains the property of mine. Basically you would be surprised what some clients try and 'own' after a project and I feel the need to protect some libraries that had been developed before them... Always have a contract because you just never know..... -- Show quoteHide quoteChris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) Veign's Resource Center http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp Veign's Blog http://www.veign.com/blog -- "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping > someone may have experience with this matter. > > I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > applications. > > I am now interested in making these applications available to a company > with whom's product the applications interface. > > What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I > developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative > work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As > far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the > applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. > > My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > original client and from what I understand may be considering > using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > > Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items > comercially available? > > Thanks, > > Matt > This phrase is key:
"... libraries that had been developed before them" One way a developer becomes competitive is to build a code base that can be used repeatedly. This means that when s/he walks into a new project, some work has been done. The client can own the solution and its derivatives, but in some cases it cannot have exclusive rights to it. One case pertains to the intellectual property of the vendor. Saga Show quoteHide quote "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message news:%23YVkikSwFHA.3588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... > Since they paid you an hourly rate (could have been a project basis > payment - the fact is that you had been working on the project on your > clients dime), the output you produced would become the property of > your > client. In fact, you would not have the right to resell without the > permission from you client or you would be open for a lawsuit.. > > There was a company that I did some work for that had paid an > independent > developer to create an application for them. The developer then > started to > sell the application on the open market. Long story short - company > sued > developer, won alot of money and a percentage of all future sales... > > My contracts, that all clients sign, states specifically what they > will own > and what remains the property of mine. Basically you would be > surprised > what some clients try and 'own' after a project and I feel the need to > protect some libraries that had been developed before them... > > Always have a contract because you just never know..... > > -- > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > Veign's Resource Center > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > Veign's Blog > http://www.veign.com/blog > -- > > > "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message > news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> Hi, >> >> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm >> hoping >> someone may have experience with this matter. >> >> I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual >> Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the >> applications. >> >> I am now interested in making these applications available to a >> company >> with whom's product the applications interface. >> >> What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I >> developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the >> creative >> work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As >> far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality >> the >> applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. >> >> My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the >> original client and from what I understand may be considering >> using/copying my original applications design/functionality. >> >> Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items >> comercially available? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Matt >> > > You would be surprised what the OP's client has rights to. The problem is a
lack of a contract to outline who owns what after payments have been made... This is one of those situations where even if the OP is in the right a lawsuit from a larger company would sink you. Always, always work under a contract. When I first touch a new company they sign a Terms of Service. Even though the Quote states "by accepting this proposal you are accepting the TOS by default" a signed TOS must be returned before work starts. All future projects can be done without a sign TOS for that project but the statement of accepting the TOS is on every quote they get... May sound like a PITA but I have yet to lose a client because of this policy... -- Show quoteHide quoteChris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) Veign's Resource Center http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp Veign's Blog http://www.veign.com/blog -- "Saga" <antiSpam@somewhere.com> wrote in message news:eNe0NgrwFHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... > > This phrase is key: > > "... libraries that had been developed before them" > > One way a developer becomes competitive is to build a code base that > can be used repeatedly. This means that when s/he walks into a new > project, > some work has been done. The client can own the solution and its > derivatives, > but in some cases it cannot have exclusive rights to it. One case > pertains > to the intellectual property of the vendor. > > Saga > > "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message > news:%23YVkikSwFHA.3588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... > > Since they paid you an hourly rate (could have been a project basis > > payment - the fact is that you had been working on the project on your > > clients dime), the output you produced would become the property of > > your > > client. In fact, you would not have the right to resell without the > > permission from you client or you would be open for a lawsuit.. > > > > There was a company that I did some work for that had paid an > > independent > > developer to create an application for them. The developer then > > started to > > sell the application on the open market. Long story short - company > > sued > > developer, won alot of money and a percentage of all future sales... > > > > My contracts, that all clients sign, states specifically what they > > will own > > and what remains the property of mine. Basically you would be > > surprised > > what some clients try and 'own' after a project and I feel the need to > > protect some libraries that had been developed before them... > > > > Always have a contract because you just never know..... > > > > -- > > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > > Veign's Resource Center > > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > > Veign's Blog > > http://www.veign.com/blog > > -- > > > > > > "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message > > news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm > >> hoping > >> someone may have experience with this matter. > >> > >> I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > >> Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > >> applications. > >> > >> I am now interested in making these applications available to a > >> company > >> with whom's product the applications interface. > >> > >> What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I > >> developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the > >> creative > >> work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As > >> far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality > >> the > >> applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. > >> > >> My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > >> original client and from what I understand may be considering > >> using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > >> > >> Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items > >> comercially available? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Matt > >> > > > > > > This type of company policy shows a certain amount of professionalism,
even before anything else is discussed so the prospect has a clear understanding of where each party stands. Anyone that wants to do clean business will appreciate this. It may sound like a PITA, but it nowhere compares to the PITA if something goes awry down the road. Saga Show quoteHide quote "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message news:%23CwxlBswFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > You would be surprised what the OP's client has rights to. The > problem is a > lack of a contract to outline who owns what after payments have been > made... > > This is one of those situations where even if the OP is in the right a > lawsuit from a larger company would sink you. Always, always work > under a > contract. > > When I first touch a new company they sign a Terms of Service. Even > though > the Quote states "by accepting this proposal you are accepting the TOS > by > default" a signed TOS must be returned before work starts. All future > projects can be done without a sign TOS for that project but the > statement > of accepting the TOS is on every quote they get... > > May sound like a PITA but I have yet to lose a client because of this > policy... > > -- > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > Veign's Resource Center > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > Veign's Blog > http://www.veign.com/blog > -- > > > "Saga" <antiSpam@somewhere.com> wrote in message > news:eNe0NgrwFHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... >> >> This phrase is key: >> >> "... libraries that had been developed before them" >> >> One way a developer becomes competitive is to build a code base that >> can be used repeatedly. This means that when s/he walks into a new >> project, >> some work has been done. The client can own the solution and its >> derivatives, >> but in some cases it cannot have exclusive rights to it. One case >> pertains >> to the intellectual property of the vendor. >> >> Saga >> >> "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message >> news:%23YVkikSwFHA.3588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... >> > Since they paid you an hourly rate (could have been a project basis >> > payment - the fact is that you had been working on the project on >> > your >> > clients dime), the output you produced would become the property of >> > your >> > client. In fact, you would not have the right to resell without >> > the >> > permission from you client or you would be open for a lawsuit.. >> > >> > There was a company that I did some work for that had paid an >> > independent >> > developer to create an application for them. The developer then >> > started to >> > sell the application on the open market. Long story short - >> > company >> > sued >> > developer, won alot of money and a percentage of all future >> > sales... >> > >> > My contracts, that all clients sign, states specifically what they >> > will own >> > and what remains the property of mine. Basically you would be >> > surprised >> > what some clients try and 'own' after a project and I feel the need >> > to >> > protect some libraries that had been developed before them... >> > >> > Always have a contract because you just never know..... >> > >> > -- >> > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) >> > Veign's Resource Center >> > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp >> > Veign's Blog >> > http://www.veign.com/blog >> > -- >> > >> > >> > "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message >> > news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm >> >> hoping >> >> someone may have experience with this matter. >> >> >> >> I have developed a few software applications for a client in >> >> Visual >> >> Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the >> >> applications. >> >> >> >> I am now interested in making these applications available to a >> >> company >> >> with whom's product the applications interface. >> >> >> >> What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software >> >> I >> >> developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the >> >> creative >> >> work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. >> >> As >> >> far as I am aware the original client just wanted the >> >> functionality >> >> the >> >> applications provided. The applications were my concept and >> >> design. >> >> >> >> My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the >> >> original client and from what I understand may be considering >> >> using/copying my original applications design/functionality. >> >> >> >> Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these >> >> items >> >> comercially available? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > True....
(not many of us can afford a lawyer) -- Show quoteHide quoteChris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) Veign's Resource Center http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp Veign's Blog http://www.veign.com/blog -- "Saga" <antiSpam@somewhere.com> wrote in message news:u5TGTQswFHA.2656@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl... > > This type of company policy shows a certain amount of professionalism, > even > before anything else is discussed so the prospect has a clear > understanding of > where each party stands. Anyone that wants to do clean business will > appreciate > this. > > It may sound like a PITA, but it nowhere compares to the PITA if > something > goes awry down the road. > > Saga > > "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message > news:%23CwxlBswFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > > You would be surprised what the OP's client has rights to. The > > problem is a > > lack of a contract to outline who owns what after payments have been > > made... > > > > This is one of those situations where even if the OP is in the right a > > lawsuit from a larger company would sink you. Always, always work > > under a > > contract. > > > > When I first touch a new company they sign a Terms of Service. Even > > though > > the Quote states "by accepting this proposal you are accepting the TOS > > by > > default" a signed TOS must be returned before work starts. All future > > projects can be done without a sign TOS for that project but the > > statement > > of accepting the TOS is on every quote they get... > > > > May sound like a PITA but I have yet to lose a client because of this > > policy... > > > > -- > > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > > Veign's Resource Center > > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > > Veign's Blog > > http://www.veign.com/blog > > -- > > > > > > "Saga" <antiSpam@somewhere.com> wrote in message > > news:eNe0NgrwFHA.3692@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl... > >> > >> This phrase is key: > >> > >> "... libraries that had been developed before them" > >> > >> One way a developer becomes competitive is to build a code base that > >> can be used repeatedly. This means that when s/he walks into a new > >> project, > >> some work has been done. The client can own the solution and its > >> derivatives, > >> but in some cases it cannot have exclusive rights to it. One case > >> pertains > >> to the intellectual property of the vendor. > >> > >> Saga > >> > >> "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message > >> news:%23YVkikSwFHA.3588@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl... > >> > Since they paid you an hourly rate (could have been a project basis > >> > payment - the fact is that you had been working on the project on > >> > your > >> > clients dime), the output you produced would become the property of > >> > your > >> > client. In fact, you would not have the right to resell without > >> > the > >> > permission from you client or you would be open for a lawsuit.. > >> > > >> > There was a company that I did some work for that had paid an > >> > independent > >> > developer to create an application for them. The developer then > >> > started to > >> > sell the application on the open market. Long story short - > >> > company > >> > sued > >> > developer, won alot of money and a percentage of all future > >> > sales... > >> > > >> > My contracts, that all clients sign, states specifically what they > >> > will own > >> > and what remains the property of mine. Basically you would be > >> > surprised > >> > what some clients try and 'own' after a project and I feel the need > >> > to > >> > protect some libraries that had been developed before them... > >> > > >> > Always have a contract because you just never know..... > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > >> > Veign's Resource Center > >> > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > >> > Veign's Blog > >> > http://www.veign.com/blog > >> > -- > >> > > >> > > >> > "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message > >> > news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > >> >> Hi, > >> >> > >> >> I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm > >> >> hoping > >> >> someone may have experience with this matter. > >> >> > >> >> I have developed a few software applications for a client in > >> >> Visual > >> >> Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > >> >> applications. > >> >> > >> >> I am now interested in making these applications available to a > >> >> company > >> >> with whom's product the applications interface. > >> >> > >> >> What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software > >> >> I > >> >> developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the > >> >> creative > >> >> work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. > >> >> As > >> >> far as I am aware the original client just wanted the > >> >> functionality > >> >> the > >> >> applications provided. The applications were my concept and > >> >> design. > >> >> > >> >> My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > >> >> original client and from what I understand may be considering > >> >> using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > >> >> > >> >> Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these > >> >> items > >> >> comercially available? > >> >> > >> >> Thanks, > >> >> > >> >> Matt > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > Veign wrote:
> Conversely, not many can afford the result of needing one and <not>> True.... > > (not many of us can afford a lawyer) .... having retained one a priori... "Duane Bozarth" <dpboza***@swko.dot.net> wrote in message Which brings up a good point.news:4338475B.9AA797EE@swko.dot.net... > Veign wrote: > > > > True.... > > > > (not many of us can afford a lawyer) > ... > > Conversely, not many can afford the result of needing one and <not> > having retained one a priori... If you are poor and you receive 'The Letter' from a lawyer or law office. Do Not respond without either actually having counsel or at least looking like it is from counsel, even if you plan on rolling over. -ralph Ralph wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > I would only modify that to remove the "you are poor and" clause...> "Duane Bozarth" <dpboza***@swko.dot.net> wrote in message > news:4338475B.9AA797EE@swko.dot.net... > > Veign wrote: > > > > > > True.... > > > > > > (not many of us can afford a lawyer) > > ... > > > > Conversely, not many can afford the result of needing one and <not> > > having retained one a priori... > > Which brings up a good point. > > If you are poor and you receive 'The Letter' from a lawyer or law office. > Do Not respond without either actually having counsel or at least looking > like it is from counsel, even if you plan on rolling over. On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 15:21:51 -0500, "Ralph"
<nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote: <snip> >Which brings up a good point. Alternatively respond, but query or dispute one item in such a way>If you are poor and you receive 'The Letter' from a lawyer or law office. >Do Not respond without either actually having counsel or at least looking >like it is from counsel, even if you plan on rolling over. that they have to write back to you. Playing ping pong with other people's lawyers is great fun - and it racks up their bills The trick is to appear utterly reasonable on paper - and to create a paper trail
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On 24 Sep 2005 07:58:35 -0700, "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote: I note that you are in the UK>Hi, > >I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping >someone may have experience with this matter. > >I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual >Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the >applications. > >I am now interested in making these applications available to a company >with whom's product the applications interface. > >What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I >developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative >work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As >far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the >applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. In future you need, at minimum, to send your client(s) a letter setting out the terms - this should be 'friendly' Generally when a programmer goes into a place they take a load of libraries with them - unless stated otherwise those remain your property. Typically you say that they have a non-exclusive licence to use those routines within the Application(s) you develop for them. The client only retains copyright and ownership of code you actually wrote in their time. Also, solicitors are expensive, you'll be lucky to find one that really understands software copyright, let alone source code ownership and intellectual property. On the plus side, you have signed nothing and were paid on an hourly basis (not as an employee) so there is not much the client can do to stop you re-writing a similar App - if you were not on-site then it is even better You might as well forget about the other company pinching your code, I know of one case where the lead programmer of a software house left to join another one, and re-engineered his former employer's major system to compete directly. The first software house sued, they eventually won, but the legal costs drained them so much that they had to sell out. Once at a former shop, a simple contract landed up costing us £13,000 - their in-house solicitor spent days talking about football with our expensive City solicitors - in the end the client's head of IT and I landed up standing at my desk shouting at our respective solicitors - then the bill came in .... I suggest that you re-engineer your product, so that it is demonstrably a lot better and different from your former client's version Also look up things like 'non-exclusive licence', 'Escrow', 'Confidentiality' Incidentally, having the source of your first cut is no great shakes for your competitors, a half decent programmer can reverse engineer a system simply by looking at its screens, data and reports. Reverse engineering is often quicker than developing from scratch. Good Luck
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"Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote in message I agree with J. French.news:1127573915.523542.71680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com... > Hi, > > I'm not sure if this is the best forum for this question but i'm hoping > someone may have experience with this matter. > > I have developed a few software applications for a client in Visual > Basic 6/.Net. The client paid me an hourly rate to develop the > applications. > > I am now interested in making these applications available to a company > with whom's product the applications interface. > > What I really need to know is who owns the rights to the software I > developed. I have not signed any documentation to say that the creative > work or the actual concept is the property of the original client. As > far as I am aware the original client just wanted the functionality the > applications provided. The applications were my concept and design. > > My main concern is that another IT company is now working with the > original client and from what I understand may be considering > using/copying my original applications design/functionality. > > Legally where do I stand if I decide to go ahead and make these items > comercially available? > > Thanks, > > Matt > IMHO, you are already digging yourself a hole if you admit you are going to use the same 'software'. Don't do that. 'Software' implies something tangible - a documented trail of documents. You will surely lose that battle, no matter which side of the Atlantic. You may also get blind-sided as the company may claim that you are actually 'stealing' other proprietary information. Irregardless of whether or not it had anything directly to do with what you actually typed out. Over here the courts often consider watercooler conversations as 'inside' information. More than one Consultant or ISV has carved out a profitable niche for themselves doing exactly what you propose to do. More than one has gotten heavily stomped for it. Usually the result is determined by whether the Company sees you as a threat, a thief, or a partner. Work for the latter. Otherwise the result will be determined by dollars. Weight out your chances and give it a shot. If or when the 'letter' comes - weight out your options again. <g> -ralph It seems I have a lot to consider. Thanks again for all your great
comments! On 26 Sep 2005 04:45:59 -0700, "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote: Don't brood on it>It seems I have a lot to consider. Thanks again for all your great >comments! - somebody will copy whatever you do regardless Spend some time making your approach look different and /better/ Your biggest problem is that the Application supplier with whom your system interfaces, will take you out for lunch, pick your brains, and do it themselves. Solicitors are best paid /very/ fixed fees - for tightly defined tasks. Other people's solicitors are great for messing around with - you can rack up their bills to their clients - I've had two solicitors sack their clients when they realized that I was ratcheting up the bills beyond their client's willingness to pay. You obviously have a friendly informant inside the company for whom you did hourly work - that is a smart move - but remember they might be playing a two sided game. Best of luck And...
Create a good solid contract for all future projects / jobs... -- Show quoteHide quoteChris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) Veign's Resource Center http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp Veign's Blog http://www.veign.com/blog -- "J French" <erew***@nowhere.uk> wrote in message news:4337edd2.8921114@news.btopenworld.com... > On 26 Sep 2005 04:45:59 -0700, "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote: > > >It seems I have a lot to consider. Thanks again for all your great > >comments! > > Don't brood on it > - somebody will copy whatever you do regardless > > Spend some time making your approach look different and /better/ > > Your biggest problem is that the Application supplier with whom your > system interfaces, will take you out for lunch, pick your brains, and > do it themselves. > > Solicitors are best paid /very/ fixed fees > - for tightly defined tasks. > > Other people's solicitors are great for messing around with > - you can rack up their bills to their clients > - I've had two solicitors sack their clients when they realized that I > was ratcheting up the bills beyond their client's willingness to pay. > > You obviously have a friendly informant inside the company for whom > you did hourly work - that is a smart move - but remember they might > be playing a two sided game. > > Best of luck >
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"Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message Which will also bring in its own set of worries.news:OL%23h6hqwFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > And... > > Create a good solid contract for all future projects / jobs... > > -- > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > Veign's Resource Center > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > Veign's Blog > http://www.veign.com/blog > -- > > > "J French" <erew***@nowhere.uk> wrote in message > news:4337edd2.8921114@news.btopenworld.com... > > On 26 Sep 2005 04:45:59 -0700, "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote: > > > > >It seems I have a lot to consider. Thanks again for all your great > > >comments! > > > > Don't brood on it > > - somebody will copy whatever you do regardless > > > > Spend some time making your approach look different and /better/ > > > > Your biggest problem is that the Application supplier with whom your > > system interfaces, will take you out for lunch, pick your brains, and > > do it themselves. > > > > Solicitors are best paid /very/ fixed fees > > - for tightly defined tasks. > > > > Other people's solicitors are great for messing around with > > - you can rack up their bills to their clients > > - I've had two solicitors sack their clients when they realized that I > > was ratcheting up the bills beyond their client's willingness to pay. > > > > You obviously have a friendly informant inside the company for whom > > you did hourly work - that is a smart move - but remember they might > > be playing a two sided game. > > > > Best of luck > > Most customers will rightfully balk at any entanglements on code written for a flat rate. In the United States I doubt a "good solid contract" exists. Recently a friend, who had a "good solid contract", discovered with dismay that her code ended up with an out-source in Indonesia. The company disavowed any knowledge. My friend was invited to sue. <g> -ralph Contracts, at least in the US, are only as good as the lawyer fighting them
and the depth of the pockets of the person fighting them. Still makes people think twice about things.. For what its worth: I almost always transfer copyright and ownership over to my clients of code written for them. Any code libraries that I may use in a project remains my property or for tougher, lawyered up clients, I grant mutual usage rights - so I don't lose the ability to use in future projects.... This is where is a gut feeling in not accepting a project because of a potentially difficult client can go a long way. -- Show quoteHide quoteChris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) Veign's Resource Center http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp Veign's Blog http://www.veign.com/blog -- "Ralph" <nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:4cqdnaGQHdT4uKXeRVn-3Q@arkansas.net... > > "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> wrote in message > news:OL%23h6hqwFHA.3864@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl... > > And... > > > > Create a good solid contract for all future projects / jobs... > > > > -- > > Chris Hanscom - Microsoft MVP (VB) > > Veign's Resource Center > > http://www.veign.com/vrc_main.asp > > Veign's Blog > > http://www.veign.com/blog > > -- > > > > > > "J French" <erew***@nowhere.uk> wrote in message > > news:4337edd2.8921114@news.btopenworld.com... > > > On 26 Sep 2005 04:45:59 -0700, "Matt" <legio***@imap.cc> wrote: > > > > > > >It seems I have a lot to consider. Thanks again for all your great > > > >comments! > > > > > > Don't brood on it > > > - somebody will copy whatever you do regardless > > > > > > Spend some time making your approach look different and /better/ > > > > > > Your biggest problem is that the Application supplier with whom your > > > system interfaces, will take you out for lunch, pick your brains, and > > > do it themselves. > > > > > > Solicitors are best paid /very/ fixed fees > > > - for tightly defined tasks. > > > > > > Other people's solicitors are great for messing around with > > > - you can rack up their bills to their clients > > > - I've had two solicitors sack their clients when they realized that I > > > was ratcheting up the bills beyond their client's willingness to pay. > > > > > > You obviously have a friendly informant inside the company for whom > > > you did hourly work - that is a smart move - but remember they might > > > be playing a two sided game. > > > > > > Best of luck > > > > > Which will also bring in its own set of worries. > > Most customers will rightfully balk at any entanglements on code written for > a flat rate. In the United States I doubt a "good solid contract" exists. > > Recently a friend, who had a "good solid contract", discovered with dismay > that her code ended up with an out-source in Indonesia. The company > disavowed any knowledge. My friend was invited to sue. <g> > > -ralph > > On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:37:56 -0400, "Veign" <NOSPAMinveign@veign.com> Actually, a reasonable letter is as good as a contractwrote: >And... >Create a good solid contract for all future projects / jobs... - and that prevents the client getting lawyers involved as most clients do not understand 'contractual intent' Lawyers are a pain, because few understand business A number of times I've run into others and myself being asked to take on consequential liability - mostly the victims were just confused and worried The answer is, 'Sure - no problem - you find the insurers, put them on to me and I'll add it to your bill - or would you prefer to pay them direct ?' |
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