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Differences between VB amd VBA and VBA EducationI am new to this job and will be doing some development in VBA through
Access. What are the major differneces between VB and VBA??? Also, Does anyone know of any good VBA courses online through Computer Based Training so that I can get up to speed on the fundamentals of developing VBA through Access quickly??? I understand and have most of the fundamentals in Access, it's just that I have never divulged deeply into the VBA Development world and am looking for some means to educate myself and educate myself quickly and efficiently. Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated and Thans in advance for your help. PSULionRP "PSULionRP" <PSULio***@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote You do best to post to an Access newsgroup, possibly> I am new to this job and will be doing some development in VBA through > Access. What are the major differneces between VB and VBA??? news://microsoft.public.access.gettingstarted VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an application. The application (Access) provides objects and methods for VBA to use... LFS "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message While I know what you're saying, I thinking there has to be a better term news:OtPLjQkpJHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that > VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an > application. than "scripting language." After all, VB itself uses VBA. "Jeff Johnson" <i.get@enough.spam> wrote That is the best fit for the the situation....> "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message > > > VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that > > VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an > > application. > > While I know what you're saying, I thinking there has to be a better term > than "scripting language." After all, VB itself uses VBA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language LFS
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"Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message Perhaps it's better to say VBA is interpreted rather than compiled. IIRC, news:Oma%23mKBqJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Jeff Johnson" <i.get@enough.spam> wrote >> "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message >> >> > VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that >> > VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an >> > application. >> >> While I know what you're saying, I thinking there has to be a better term >> than "scripting language." After all, VB itself uses VBA. > > > That is the best fit for the the situation.... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language > VBA runs as pCode.
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"Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote in message Nope, not better.news:%238%23BvrCqJHA.324@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > > "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message > news:Oma%23mKBqJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > > > "Jeff Johnson" <i.get@enough.spam> wrote > >> "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message > >> > >> > VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that > >> > VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an > >> > application. > >> > >> While I know what you're saying, I thinking there has to be a better term > >> than "scripting language." After all, VB itself uses VBA. > > > > > > That is the best fit for the the situation.... > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language > > > > > Perhaps it's better to say VBA is interpreted rather than compiled. IIRC, > VBA runs as pCode. > Both VBA and VB (which is only an extended VBA for VB) languages are already "interpreted" into pcode (or more correctly into opcode* or excode depending on its immediate state) when loaded or typed into the VBE (editor). Both run as a version of pcode called excode within their respective IDEs. The main difference between the two languages is VBA, as hinted to by its name - "Visual Basic for Applications", can only be run or used with a container application and cannot be compiled into a separate executable. As a corollary to this VBA contains no I/O functionality for printing, files, keyboard, etc. except through facilities provided by the container application. -ralph (* not to be confused with ASM opcode) Oops!
"As a corollary to this VBA contains no I/O functionality for printing, files, keyboard, etc. except through facilities provided by the container application." To be strictly accurate this sentence should be changed to say " by the application or other runtime service." Since VBA within some environments can use both services provided by the container application or alternatives services such as the Scripting Runtime Library. -ralph
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"Ralph" <nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote in message I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you news:uCaZpeDqJHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Oops! > > "As a corollary to this VBA contains no I/O functionality for printing, > files, keyboard, etc. except through facilities provided by the container > application." > > To be strictly accurate this sentence should be changed to say " by the > application or other runtime service." Since VBA within some environments > can use both services provided by the container application or > alternatives > services such as the Scripting Runtime Library. > referring to ?
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"Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote in message What VBA are you referring to?news:ebR0WOIqJHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Ralph" <nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:uCaZpeDqJHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > Oops! > > > > "As a corollary to this VBA contains no I/O functionality for printing, > > files, keyboard, etc. except through facilities provided by the container > > application." > > > > To be strictly accurate this sentence should be changed to say " by the > > application or other runtime service." Since VBA within some environments > > can use both services provided by the container application or > > alternatives > > services such as the Scripting Runtime Library. > > > > I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you > referring to ? > Ralph wrote:
>> I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you Yeah, he's right. This is straight out of an Access module:>> referring to ? > > What VBA are you referring to? Public Function ReadFile(ByVal FileName As String) As String Dim hFile As Long On Error GoTo Hell hFile = FreeFile Open FileName For Binary As #hFile ReadFile = Input(LOF(hFile), #hFile) Close #hFile Hell: End Function Public Function WriteFile(ByVal FileName As String, ByVal Text As String) As Boolean Dim hFile As Long On Error GoTo Hell hFile = FreeFile Open FileName For Output As #hFile Print #hFile, Text Close #hFile Hell: WriteFile = Not CBool(Err.Number) End Function You thinking VBScript, maybe?
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"Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message VBA always runs in the memory space of the container. It has no access tonews:e0APcQOqJHA.5832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > Ralph wrote: > >> I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you > >> referring to ? > > > > What VBA are you referring to? > > Yeah, he's right. This is straight out of an Access module: > > Public Function ReadFile(ByVal FileName As String) As String > Dim hFile As Long > On Error GoTo Hell > hFile = FreeFile > Open FileName For Binary As #hFile > ReadFile = Input(LOF(hFile), #hFile) > Close #hFile > Hell: > End Function > > Public Function WriteFile(ByVal FileName As String, ByVal Text As String) As > Boolean > Dim hFile As Long > On Error GoTo Hell > hFile = FreeFile > Open FileName For Output As #hFile > Print #hFile, Text > Close #hFile > Hell: > WriteFile = Not CBool(Err.Number) > End Function > > You thinking VBScript, maybe? the outside world except through the container or COM if allowed by the container. It cannot be compiled into a separate stand-alone executable. These are the two fundamental differences between it and VB proper. The download is no longer available but if you still have MSDN Subscription CDs previous to July 2007, you can retrieve the VBA SDK/APC (Application Programmability Components) and examine what is needed to provide I/O services for embedded VBA code. In addition to how to provide application specific extensions through an Object Model. The developer embedding VBA within their application can decide what services to provide, what services to block or ignore, or services to map to other services. The example you gave is showing how a VBA programmer can go about requesting File I/O services from within MS Access. No surprise it looks identical to "VB" as VB is using VBA. (more below) File I/O is a basic platform service so is easy to provide, as the container merely allows access to its own core language runtime services. Where you usually notice the distinction is in working with device input and output, events. etc. What might be confusing to some is that embedded VBA comes with its own runtime* which to all appearances look 'n feels just like the VBRuntime - the exception is once again - the runtime is hosted by the Application - it is not a separate entity with its own core I/O. [*since version 5.x (???) VB and VBA share the same virtual machine and the same core language library.] Any comparison of VBA and VB based entirely on language elements tends to blur because the difference is only one of "dialects". The "VB" language as defined by a specific platform (eg VB6) is the VBA core language with an extended VB Object Model (the runtime objects and procedures and others) used by the VB6 IDE 'application' to create free-standing executables and modules. That is, no different than MSAccess using embedded VBA to create MSAccess applications. It is only when one considers where and how the final result is to be used - does the distinction become clear. -ralph Ralph wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message WTF? That's *VBA* code running as *VBA* within the hosted application. Same code > news:e0APcQOqJHA.5832@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... >> Ralph wrote: >> >> I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you >> >> referring to ? >> > >> > What VBA are you referring to? >> >> Yeah, he's right. This is straight out of an Access module: >> >> Public Function ReadFile(ByVal FileName As String) As String >> Dim hFile As Long >> On Error GoTo Hell >> hFile = FreeFile >> Open FileName For Binary As #hFile >> ReadFile = Input(LOF(hFile), #hFile) >> Close #hFile >> Hell: >> End Function >> >> Public Function WriteFile(ByVal FileName As String, ByVal Text As String) As >> Boolean >> Dim hFile As Long >> On Error GoTo Hell >> hFile = FreeFile >> Open FileName For Output As #hFile >> Print #hFile, Text >> Close #hFile >> Hell: >> WriteFile = Not CBool(Err.Number) >> End Function >> >> You thinking VBScript, maybe? > > VBA always runs in the memory space of the container. It has no access to > the outside world except through the container or COM if allowed by the > container. It cannot be compiled into a separate stand-alone executable. > These are the two fundamental differences between it and VB proper. > > The download is no longer available but if you still have MSDN Subscription > CDs previous to July 2007, you can retrieve the VBA SDK/APC (Application > Programmability Components) and examine what is needed to provide I/O > services for embedded VBA code. In addition to how to provide application > specific extensions through an Object Model. The developer embedding VBA > within their application can decide what services to provide, what services > to block or ignore, or services to map to other services. > > The example you gave is showing how a VBA programmer can go about requesting > File I/O services from within MS Access. No surprise it looks identical to > "VB" as VB is using VBA. (more below) File I/O is a basic platform service > so is easy to provide, as the container merely allows access to its own core > language runtime services. Where you usually notice the distinction is in > working with device input and output, events. etc. > > What might be confusing to some is that embedded VBA comes with its own > runtime* which to all appearances look 'n feels just like the VBRuntime - > the exception is once again - the runtime is hosted by the Application - it > is not a separate entity with its own core I/O. > > [*since version 5.x (???) VB and VBA share the same virtual machine and the > same core language library.] > > Any comparison of VBA and VB based entirely on language elements tends to > blur because the difference is only one of "dialects". The "VB" language as > defined by a specific platform (eg VB6) is the VBA core language with an > extended VB Object Model (the runtime objects and procedures and others) > used by the VB6 IDE 'application' to create free-standing executables and > modules. That is, no different than MSAccess using embedded VBA to create > MSAccess applications. It is only when one considers where and how the final > result is to be used - does the distinction become clear. works in Word, Excel, Access, FrontPage, PowerPoint, CorelDraw, etc, etc, etc. I never said anything about it resembling VB. But hey, don't take my word for it. Pop open the VBA editor in your favorite Office app, press F2, type "freefile" in the search box, and hit Enter. What library does the single result show? "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message <snipped>news:e61dkqYqJHA.3896@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > etc. I> WTF? That's *VBA* code running as *VBA* within the hosted application. Same code > works in Word, Excel, Access, FrontPage, PowerPoint, CorelDraw, etc, etc, > never said anything about it resembling VB. But hey, don't take my word Lol.for it. > Pop open the VBA editor in your favorite Office app, press F2, type "freefile" in > the search box, and hit Enter. What library does the single result show? > -- You will catch on eventually, or not, but it doesn't in the broad scheme of things really matter. -ralph Ralph wrote:
> "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote ... Well, hey, I'd really like to, actually. If you think I'm missing something. Your > <snipped> >> >> WTF? That's *VBA* code running as *VBA* within the hosted application. Same code >> works in Word, Excel, Access, FrontPage, PowerPoint, CorelDraw, etc, etc, etc. I >> never said anything about it resembling VB. But hey, don't take my word for it. >> Pop open the VBA editor in your favorite Office app, press F2, type "freefile" in >> the search box, and hit Enter. What library does the single result show? > > Lol. > > You will catch on eventually, or not, but it doesn't in the broad scheme of > things really matter. explanation left me wanting more, though. As in, something that actually made sense. <g> Thanks!
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"Ralph" <nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote in message Word 2007. What VBA are you referring to ?news:u7GUoYKqJHA.3364@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > > "Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote in message > news:ebR0WOIqJHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> >> "Ralph" <nt_consultin***@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> news:uCaZpeDqJHA.1168@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> > Oops! >> > >> > "As a corollary to this VBA contains no I/O functionality for printing, >> > files, keyboard, etc. except through facilities provided by the > container >> > application." >> > >> > To be strictly accurate this sentence should be changed to say " by the >> > application or other runtime service." Since VBA within some > environments >> > can use both services provided by the container application or >> > alternatives >> > services such as the Scripting Runtime Library. >> > >> >> I can use Open, Print, FreeFile etc in VBA. What file I/O are you >> referring to ? >> > > What VBA are you referring to? > This is starting to look like another never ending thread.
Let me try to end it. VB versions 1 thru 6 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic Needs to be compiled to run. (compiles on the fly inside the IDE) VBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_for_Applications Compiled on execution. (compiles on the fly inside the IDE) VB Script http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VBScript Never compiled The .net versions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_.NET No one here cares. So calling VBA, VB Script is totally incorrect. End :<) John Show quoteHide quote "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message news:Oma%23mKBqJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Jeff Johnson" <i.get@enough.spam> wrote >> "Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message >> >> > VB groups are for the VB language. The major difference is that >> > VB creates applications, and VBA is a scripting language within an >> > application. >> >> While I know what you're saying, I thinking there has to be a better term >> than "scripting language." After all, VB itself uses VBA. > > > That is the best fit for the the situation.... > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripting_language > > LFS > > "jaf" <m*@here.com> wrote in message <cut>news:uwct67JqJHA.6132@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > So calling VBA, VB Script is totally incorrect. No, don't use END with VB!> > End :<) <g> jaf wrote:
> VBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_for_Applications Compiled on How come the Debug menu has a Compile option, then, hmmm? <g>> execution. > (compiles on the fly inside the IDE) Hi Karl,
You can manually compile the code before running it so when you click the run button it runs faster by skipping the compile step. John Show quoteHide quote "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message news:%23Yn3eROqJHA.4564@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl... > jaf wrote: >> VBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_for_Applications Compiled on >> execution. >> (compiles on the fly inside the IDE) > > How come the Debug menu has a Compile option, then, hmmm? <g> > -- > .NET: It's About Trust! > http://vfred.mvps.org > > jaf wrote:
>>> VBA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Basic_for_Applications Compiled on Yeah, I knew that, of course. That's why I refuted your generalization.>>> execution. (compiles on the fly inside the IDE) >> >> How come the Debug menu has a Compile option, then, hmmm? <g> > > You can manually compile the code before running it so when you click the run > button it runs faster by skipping the compile step. Like Larry wrote is the difference between VBA (and VBS) is using scripting,
while VB is using builded applications. (Assemblies, exes whatever name you give to that). In VBA/VBS is everytime the code you write evaluated. Using VB for Com (versions before VB7) have late binding, this means that this is partially still done(therefore it is mostly slower then a program written with C++) Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in intermidiate language). Cor Show quoteHide quote "PSULionRP" wrote: > I am new to this job and will be doing some development in VBA through > Access. What are the major differneces between VB and VBA??? > > Also, Does anyone know of any good VBA courses online through Computer Based > Training so that I can get up to speed on the fundamentals of developing VBA > through Access quickly??? I understand and have most of the fundamentals in > Access, it's just that I have never divulged deeply into the VBA Development > world and am looking for some means to educate myself and educate myself > quickly and efficiently. > > Any feedback is GREATLY appreciated and Thans in advance for your help. > > PSULionRP "Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote in message There is no version 7. The VB in the name VB7 is a lie. Sheesh! You must be news:DCC5F1F7-76A2-45F1-B053-DFCD880E6351@microsoft.com... > Using VB for Com (versions before VB7) a pushover, a salesman's wet dream! Mike
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"Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet <snip>news:DCC5F1F7-76A2-45F1-B053-DFCD880E6351@microsoft.com... > Like Larry wrote is the difference between VBA (and VBS) is using > scripting, > while VB is using builded applications. (Assemblies, exes whatever name > you > give to that). > > In VBA/VBS is everytime the code you write evaluated. > > Using VB for Com (versions before VB7) have late binding, this means that > this is partially still done(therefore it is mostly slower then a program > written with C++) > > Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) > therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in > intermidiate language). Are you in some way payed by M$ to post ad's in this group? Please tell me what your post added to Larry's regarding VB6? FO /Henning Henning wrote:
> "Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet... Yes, he is.>> Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) >> therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in >> intermidiate language). > <snip> > > Are you in some way payed by M$ to post ad's in this group? https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=69B9F7E3-AAB7-440E-985F-A77B66C121FB And, just like Microsoft, he disguises the truth with seriously stupid statements like the above.
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"Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> skrev i meddelandet Really sad!news:Op4xBcypJHA.4108@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Henning wrote: >> "Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet... >>> Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) >>> therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in >>> intermidiate language). >> <snip> >> >> Are you in some way payed by M$ to post ad's in this group? > > Yes, he is. > > https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=69B9F7E3-AAB7-440E-985F-A77B66C121FB > > And, just like Microsoft, he disguises the truth with seriously stupid > statements like the above. > -- > .NET: It's About Trust! > http://vfred.mvps.org > How can a grown up man, with his background, find any joy in disturbing the classic vb group with irrelevant dotnet posts?? All programmers in other languages know where to post their stuff, why not just dotnetters? Even M$ knows the differences and created special groups for dotnet languages. Why not certain MVP's? /Henning Henning wrote:
Show quoteHide quote > "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> skrev i meddelandet... Yep. Just pathetic, in the very baby-like sense of the word, isn't it?>> Henning wrote: >>> "Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet... >>>> Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) >>>> therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in >>>> intermidiate language). >>> <snip> >>> >>> Are you in some way payed by M$ to post ad's in this group? >> >> Yes, he is. >> >> https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=69B9F7E3-AAB7-440E-985F-A77B66C121FB >> >> And, just like Microsoft, he disguises the truth with seriously stupid >> statements like the above. > > Really sad! > How can a grown up man, with his background, find any joy in disturbing the I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on their part. They > classic vb group with irrelevant dotnet posts?? All programmers in other > languages know where to post their stuff, why not just dotnetters? > Even M$ knows the differences and created special groups for dotnet > languages. Why not certain MVP's? made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it was a losing bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of respect they once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite.
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"Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=69B9F7E3-AAB7-440E-985F-A77B66C121FBnews:O3j6$HzpJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > Henning wrote: > > "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> skrev i meddelandet... > >> Henning wrote: > >>> "Cor Ligthert" <notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet... > >>>> Using VB for Net (versions newer then VB6) builds everything (if wished) > >>>> therefore those programs are as fast as written with C++ (even in > >>>> intermidiate language). > >>> <snip> > >>> > >>> Are you in some way payed by M$ to post ad's in this group? > >> > >> Yes, he is. > >> > >> Show quoteHide quote > >> part. They> >> And, just like Microsoft, he disguises the truth with seriously stupid > >> statements like the above. > > > > Really sad! > > Yep. Just pathetic, in the very baby-like sense of the word, isn't it? > > > How can a grown up man, with his background, find any joy in disturbing the > > classic vb group with irrelevant dotnet posts?? All programmers in other > > languages know where to post their stuff, why not just dotnetters? > > Even M$ knows the differences and created special groups for dotnet > > languages. Why not certain MVP's? > > I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on their > made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it was a It is called "Cognitive Dissonance"losing bet. > Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of respect they once > had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. > -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, Linux vs Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling over the alternative - for or against. In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - "That may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In other cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which case the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be considered a "professional manner". Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. Often the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, again both for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly after all these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of the beast. After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up with a totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and short-comings, became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor why a company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon it and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives of those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those who go out of their way to trash it? -ralph Ralph wrote:
Show quoteHide quote >> I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on their part. Yeah, good points. I do sense fear too, though, in the exVBers. I think it's >> They made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it was a losing >> bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of respect they >> once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. > > It is called "Cognitive Dissonance" > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance > > It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, Linux vs > Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling over the > alternative - for or against. > > In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - "That > may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In other > cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which case > the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be > considered a "professional manner". > > Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. Often > the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, again both > for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly after all > these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of the > beast. > > After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up with a > totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and short-comings, > became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor why a > company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon it > and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives of > those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those who go > out of their way to trash it? something like that exSmoker syndrome? You know how hostile they (many of them, at any rate) can get when they catch a whiff. There's this ingrained sense that they've somehow bettered themselves, but they still miss their old fun and games self, and regret the stodgy codger they've become. Can cognitive dissonance be wholly within an individual? Karl,
As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the newsgroup Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking about a situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints directly to Microsoft. Cor Show quoteHide quote "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message news:uDcXv20pJHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... > Ralph wrote: >>> I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on their >>> part. >>> They made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it was >>> a losing >>> bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of >>> respect they >>> once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. >> >> It is called "Cognitive Dissonance" >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance >> >> It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, Linux >> vs >> Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling over >> the >> alternative - for or against. >> >> In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - "That >> may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In other >> cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which case >> the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be >> considered a "professional manner". >> >> Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. >> Often >> the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, again >> both >> for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly after >> all >> these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of >> the >> beast. >> >> After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up with >> a >> totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and short-comings, >> became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor >> why a >> company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon it >> and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives of >> those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those who >> go >> out of their way to trash it? > > Yeah, good points. I do sense fear too, though, in the exVBers. I think > it's something like that exSmoker syndrome? You know how hostile they > (many of them, at any rate) can get when they catch a whiff. There's this > ingrained sense that they've somehow bettered themselves, but they still > miss their old fun and games self, and regret the stodgy codger they've > become. Can cognitive dissonance be wholly within an individual? > -- > .NET: It's About Trust! > http://vfred.mvps.org > And then I'm sure you have a link to such directing?
/Henning Show quoteHide quote "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet news:ueu0Q74pJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > Karl, > > As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the newsgroup > Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking about a > situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints directly > to Microsoft. > > Cor > > "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message > news:uDcXv20pJHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >> Ralph wrote: >>>> I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on their >>>> part. >>>> They made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it >>>> was a losing >>>> bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of >>>> respect they >>>> once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. >>> >>> It is called "Cognitive Dissonance" >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance >>> >>> It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, Linux >>> vs >>> Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling over >>> the >>> alternative - for or against. >>> >>> In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - >>> "That >>> may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In other >>> cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which >>> case >>> the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be >>> considered a "professional manner". >>> >>> Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. >>> Often >>> the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, again >>> both >>> for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly after >>> all >>> these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of >>> the >>> beast. >>> >>> After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up >>> with a >>> totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and >>> short-comings, >>> became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor >>> why a >>> company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon >>> it >>> and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives of >>> those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those who >>> go >>> out of their way to trash it? >> >> Yeah, good points. I do sense fear too, though, in the exVBers. I think >> it's something like that exSmoker syndrome? You know how hostile they >> (many of them, at any rate) can get when they catch a whiff. There's >> this ingrained sense that they've somehow bettered themselves, but they >> still miss their old fun and games self, and regret the stodgy codger >> they've become. Can cognitive dissonance be wholly within an individual? >> -- >> .NET: It's About Trust! >> http://vfred.mvps.org >> >
http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/
Show quote Hide quote "Henning" <computer_h***@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:49c0e1d8$0$16212$57c3e1d3@news3.bahnhof.se... > And then I'm sure you have a link to such directing? > > /Henning > > "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet > news:ueu0Q74pJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >> Karl, >> >> As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the >> newsgroup Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking >> about a situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints >> directly to Microsoft. >> >> Cor >> >> "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message >> news:uDcXv20pJHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>> Ralph wrote: >>>>> I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on >>>>> their part. >>>>> They made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it >>>>> was a losing >>>>> bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of >>>>> respect they >>>>> once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. >>>> >>>> It is called "Cognitive Dissonance" >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance >>>> >>>> It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, Linux >>>> vs >>>> Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling over >>>> the >>>> alternative - for or against. >>>> >>>> In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - >>>> "That >>>> may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In other >>>> cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which >>>> case >>>> the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be >>>> considered a "professional manner". >>>> >>>> Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. >>>> Often >>>> the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, again >>>> both >>>> for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly >>>> after all >>>> these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of >>>> the >>>> beast. >>>> >>>> After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up >>>> with a >>>> totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and >>>> short-comings, >>>> became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor >>>> why a >>>> company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon >>>> it >>>> and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives >>>> of >>>> those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those who >>>> go >>>> out of their way to trash it? >>> >>> Yeah, good points. I do sense fear too, though, in the exVBers. I >>> think it's something like that exSmoker syndrome? You know how hostile >>> they (many of them, at any rate) can get when they catch a whiff. >>> There's this ingrained sense that they've somehow bettered themselves, >>> but they still miss their old fun and games self, and regret the stodgy >>> codger they've become. Can cognitive dissonance be wholly within an >>> individual? >>> -- >>> .NET: It's About Trust! >>> http://vfred.mvps.org >>> >> > > "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote See my other post in this thread for a deeper link to the> http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/ appropreate .Net group. LFS And if you don't read that as the devil reads the bible, it clearly states
several separate groups for VB.NET. It might be because you haven't got the difference yet, even though one get the impression that with your background it should not be a problem. I guess you never used the classic version. /Henning Show quoteHide quote "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet news:%23MmB8J8pJHA.4028@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl... > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/ > > > "Henning" <computer_h***@coldmail.com> wrote in message > news:49c0e1d8$0$16212$57c3e1d3@news3.bahnhof.se... >> And then I'm sure you have a link to such directing? >> >> /Henning >> >> "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet >> news:ueu0Q74pJHA.1172@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... >>> Karl, >>> >>> As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the >>> newsgroup Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking >>> about a situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints >>> directly to Microsoft. >>> >>> Cor >>> >>> "Karl E. Peterson" <k***@mvps.org> wrote in message >>> news:uDcXv20pJHA.5980@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl... >>>> Ralph wrote: >>>>>> I dunno. My sense is it's an overriding feeling of insecurity on >>>>>> their part. >>>>>> They made a horrific bet, and it's looking for all the world like it >>>>>> was a losing >>>>>> bet. Losers go to any lengths to attempt to salvage the remnants of >>>>>> respect they >>>>>> once had, while at the same time really effecting just the opposite. >>>>> >>>>> It is called "Cognitive Dissonance" >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance >>>>> >>>>> It shows up with any choice; C vs C++, Java vs C++, VB.Net vs C#, >>>>> Linux vs >>>>> Windows, ... And within any forum you will find someone quarreling >>>>> over the >>>>> alternative - for or against. >>>>> >>>>> In most forums such posts are usually met with a polite but stern - >>>>> "That >>>>> may be very true, but it is off-topic here" or simply ignored. In >>>>> other >>>>> cases it may be the participants have a valid observation - in which >>>>> case >>>>> the relevant points are discussed. In other words, in what might be >>>>> considered a "professional manner". >>>>> >>>>> Unfortunately, VB appears to be a major exception and always has been. >>>>> Often >>>>> the behavior of the participants is baffling if not pathological, >>>>> again both >>>>> for and against. At times I thought I understood them, but frankly >>>>> after all >>>>> these years I'm as mystified as ever. Perhaps it is just the nature of >>>>> the >>>>> beast. >>>>> >>>>> After-all even MS never quite understood VB. No one has ever come up >>>>> with a >>>>> totally convincing argument why VB, with all its warts and >>>>> short-comings, >>>>> became the single most important development platform for Windows. Nor >>>>> why a >>>>> company who owes so much of its success to VB would so quickly abandon >>>>> it >>>>> and its users. If we poorly understand its popularity and the motives >>>>> of >>>>> those who love it, how can we truly understand the motives of those >>>>> who go >>>>> out of their way to trash it? >>>> >>>> Yeah, good points. I do sense fear too, though, in the exVBers. I >>>> think it's something like that exSmoker syndrome? You know how hostile >>>> they (many of them, at any rate) can get when they catch a whiff. >>>> There's this ingrained sense that they've somehow bettered themselves, >>>> but they still miss their old fun and games self, and regret the stodgy >>>> codger they've become. Can cognitive dissonance be wholly within an >>>> individual? >>>> -- >>>> .NET: It's About Trust! >>>> http://vfred.mvps.org >>>> >>> >> >> > Cor Ligthert[MVP] wrote:
> "Henning" <computer_h***@coldmail.com> wrote ... Do you *really* want to sound as stupid as that? Really???>> "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> skrev i meddelandet... >>> As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the >>> newsgroup Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking >>> about a situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints >>> directly to Microsoft. >> >> And then I'm sure you have a link to such directing? > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/ I'm sure you think it's cute, but that's clearly not how it's coming off. Where's your *dignity* man? Pull yer head out. "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote Cor please read this messsage from an MSDN forum moderator:> As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the newsgroup > Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking about a > situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints directly to > Microsoft. http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vblanguage/thread/aa350a38-3bb9-4919-9cc1-afaf7fed52f5 It states VB6 posts are off topic in the VB.Net forums. It goes on to list several places where VB6 questions may be posted. The first item in the list is THIS NEWSGROUP. This group is for VB6 (and prior) versions. VB.Net posts/questions are off topic in THIS group. The proper place for VB.Net posts is in the dotnet groups. Try here (web access to VB NET General Discussions): http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft.public.dotnet.languages.vb&cat=en_US_d72fc3c1-559a-42b0-86e2-26671f9fb2e9&lang=en&cr=US LFS
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"Larry Serflaten" <serfla***@usinternet.com> wrote in message Right.news:uRuLsP8pJHA.5508@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl... > > "Cor Ligthert[MVP]" <Notmyfirstn***@planet.nl> wrote >> As long as MSDN directs newsgroup questions about VB Net to the >> newsgroup >> Microsoft.vb.general.discussion, then you are probably talking about a >> situation in past. I am not Microsoft, so direct your complaints directly >> to >> Microsoft. > > Cor please read this messsage from an MSDN forum moderator: > http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/vblanguage/thread/aa350a38-3bb9-4919-9cc1-afaf7fed52f5 > > It states VB6 posts are off topic in the VB.Net forums. It goes on > to list several places where VB6 questions may be posted. The > first item in the list is THIS NEWSGROUP. > > This group is for VB6 (and prior) versions. VB.Net posts/questions It doesn't actually say that anywhere. If this group was named > are off topic in THIS group. vb6.general.discussion that would be fair to say, but it isn't. (shame really as that would alleviate so many of these rather pointless issues). This group is VB.general.discussion. It was created long before VB6 or VB.NET. A post about "VB" is not off topic in here, however for VB.NET questions there are mroe specific groups and the posts should be directed there, just as has bene the standing practice here for winAPI questions (for the most part) "Bill McCarthy" <TPASoft.com Are Identity Thieves> wrote in message It is a Classic VB group, as you very well know!news:uKiqvrCqJHA.324@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... > It doesn't actually say that anywhere. If this group was > named vb6.general.discussion that would be fair to say, > but it isn't. It was created long before VB6 or VB.NET. > A post about "VB" is not off topic in here It is if it is a post about VB.Net, dick brain!> however for VB.NET questions there are mroe specific Then WTF don't you do exactly that, or just leave it alone, instead of > groups and the posts should be directed there . . . repeatedly and annoyingly posting answers to off topic question about VB.Net in the Classic VB group! You're a dick brain, McCarthy, and you are deliberately trying to destroy the Classic VB group and have been trying to do so for ages! As far as I know you profess to still be a Micro$oft MVP, in which case you are not deserving of that title and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself. Surely Micro$oft has not asked you to destroy the Classic VB group on their behalf? If they have not then they should sack you for attempting to do so on your own behalf! Michael "Bill McCarthy" <McCarthy Is An Identity Thief> wrote in message Hello again, McCarthy. You really are dick brain, aren't you. I see that you news:uKiqvrCqJHA.324@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl... >> This group [microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion] is for VB6 (and >> prior) versions. VB.Net posts/questions are off topic in THIS group. > It doesn't actually say that anywhere [1]. are still trying to build up your Micro$oft MVP brownie points by keeping your postings count high and by posting delioberately provocative messages that are designed to destropy the Classic VB group because you think that is what your MS puppet master wants you to do, even if it means posting totally irrelevant junk as usual? > It doesn't actually say that anywhere [2]. It doesn't actually say "do not eat" on a dog turd, but most sensible people would not eat it. Presumably you would though, because there are no instructions on it to the contrary and you are obviously not sensible. Dick brain! This microsoft.public.vb.general.discussion has been a Classic VB newsgroup for a great many years and when Micro$oft decided to release their completely different VB.Net programming tool, to which they dishonestly gave a similar name for marketing purposes, even they realised that it was in fact something totally different as is evidenced by the fact that on their very own news servers they created a new and diufferent newsgroup for it. If Micro$oft realise that it is a very different thing and is deserving of its own newsgroup then why can't you? Are you totally tick or something? Or are you simply trying to destroy the Classic VB group? On the assumption that you are not the former then I must assume you are attempting to do the latter. Why don't you just go away, as many people have asked you to do many times? By the way, why do you not post any more, at least in your own name, on your beloved VB.Net group. Apart from a few very rare occasions you haven't been on there for about six months, even though you inmsist on repeatedly extolling what you see as its virtues on the Classic VB group, where you are not wanted! Won't they let you on there any more? Do they realise that you are a dick head as well? Michael > It doesn't actually say that anywhere. If this group was named Uh huh, right. Makes about as much sense as saying this group> vb6.general.discussion that would be fair to say, but it isn't. is only for general discussions! Do you see any generals here? If you're not a general, you are in the wrong group.... That is about how much sense you are portraying by trying to include VB.Net in the classic VB groups.... Give it a rest! LFS 
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